FOSMM WHATSAPP THREAD ON 17 NOVEMBER 2016 – BOND NOTES

  1. [5:56 AM, 11/17/2016] MD Mawere: Morning
  2. [5:57 AM, 11/17/2016] +263 78 503 5819: Morning to you
  3. [6:02 AM, 11/17/2016] MD Mawere: I am saying that there are many lenses that can be used in respect of the bond notes matter. Is there a problem of the availability of physical cash in the market? YES

Are there easy solutions? NOh_01305287

Are the opponents of the project offering any viable solutions? NO

Will any court be competent to set aside the decision and actions? Debatable

Are the actions in the public interest? Debatable

  1. [6:03 AM, 11/17/2016] +263 78 289 6338: True
  2. [6:04 AM, 11/17/2016] +263 78 503 5819: Good points indeed
  3. [6:05 AM, 11/17/2016] MD Mawere: Who are the respondents?
  4. [6:08 AM, 11/17/2016] +263 78 289 6338: People have just said no to bond notes without useful alternatives..we cant bebate whetger or not we have cash problems and that gvt cant have a DO NOTHING policy..they refused to adopt the US wen advised by Simba Makoni long back and he was labaled an enemy of the State but did it wen the damage was too much…
  5. [6:20 AM, 11/17/2016] +263 78 503 5819: I think the major fear in people’s mind is the bearer cheques effect. A lot fell casualties to it and they bonds will have the same effect
  6. [6:30 AM, 11/17/2016] +263 78 289 6338: Dont say bond notes will have the same effect..its more of ppl fear they will have the same effect coz haisi fact
  7. [6:42 AM, 11/17/2016] +27 78 202 5720: I agree in toto
  8. [6:47 AM, 11/17/2016] Ras: What public interest could possibly be served by introducing a surrogate currency under the guise of an “export incentive”. Dziva I struggle to understand the basis on which u are justifying bond noted which is a quick quick monetary solution to a structural problem caused by fiscal indiscipline and reckless gov borrowing bordering on kleptocracy
  9. [6:50 AM, 11/17/2016] MD Mawere: You may be aware the coupons and vouchers are surrogate currencies. You also don’t need $ as a unit of exchange. You can barter and even promise to pay. If the bond notes are backed 1 to 1 by real money, what would be the mischief outside the acts of man?
  10. [6:53 AM, 11/17/2016] Ras: I’m sure u know Dziva that 1 as to $1 is fictious. One doesn’t need to be Prof Dumbledore of the Hogwarts school of wizardry to foretell that the bond note exchange rate at road port will shoot as soon as they get on the street
  11. [6:54 AM, 11/17/2016] Dr Vusumuzi Sibanda Sibbs: Are you expecting the gvt yo just fold their hands and say we have failed? It is only Cameron who lost a referendum and walked. The gvt believes it was mandated to lead, and fix what is broken. There is no money and they are putting money in circulation as a solution. It is their duty to do so and the court bid will fail dismally.
  12. [6:55 AM, 11/17/2016] MD Mawere: 👋🏾👋🏾👋🏾
  13. [6:56 AM, 11/17/2016] Ras: You confidently say “they are putting money” Cde is that “money”. I notice u are not here at home and u have never had to live with $100 withdrawal
  14. [6:56 AM, 11/17/2016] +263 73 214 5751: Its very misleading to tell people that those who are against the introduction of bond notes have no alternative solutions. There has been always alternatives in Zimbabwe since the days of Simba Makoni, and even during the time of the GNU but our actors never welcome any advice which does not come from them and that which they view in suspicion or are not sure about. Anton Hawkins the then advicer to the RBZ and Robertson strongly argued to the adoption of the South African Rand but who listened to them. Isn’t it that we need to give economists an opportunity to explore possible opportunities that can take us from the situation where we have put ourselves in. How many genuine business people have been listened to for advice. Recently the likes of Nigel Chanakira has been trying to engage the government in trying to give direction but who listen to him. Nobody. Our government have viewed the business community of our country with suspicion to any extend that that do not take advice from them, where they do more often than not such decisions would have been overtaken by events. This is the reason why companies like SMM have been brought down by the government because they have always suspected the successful business people.
  15. [6:57 AM, 11/17/2016] MD Mawere: You are talking about the mischief of actors and not the enterprise of currency working to facilitate the exchange of goods and services. You are entitled as a member of FOSMM to distrust for good cause the bona fides of actors behind the bond notes.
  16. [6:58 AM, 11/17/2016] Ras: A form 3economics students knows that a currency has to be backed by something. It used to be gold long back. This “currency” is backed by what?
  17. [6:59 AM, 11/17/2016] +263 73 214 5751: We all know the negative effect of a currency whose value is just declared without any significant sound economic fundermental
  18. [7:05 AM, 11/17/2016] Tinashe Mpasiri: Talking about the adoption of the rand. I recall last December people shunning the currency. It seems like it’s people who do not know what they want.
  19. [7:09 AM, 11/17/2016] Dr Vusumuzi Sibanda Sibbs: Friends dont get me wrong. Its a bad policy and stratagem but it is legally their duty as the body politic to do so. The courts have no business there because that will be interfering with the work and duties of the other organ of state. The three organs check and balance but cannot do the work of the other. The court interpret laws and do not legislate. The bond notes is not unconstitutional and therefore cannot be stopped in court. The court is not there to decide on the irrationality or goodness of policies of the executive but constitutionality thereof. Bond notes can be stopped by political action not court action.
  20. [7:10 AM, 11/17/2016] +263 73 214 5751: No its not people, it’s the prevailing fundamentals on the ground at that particular moment.
  21. [7:12 AM, 11/17/2016] Tinashe Mpasiri: Is it the fundamentals you exchange value with or its individuals?
  22. [7:12 AM, 11/17/2016] +263 73 214 5751: Where on earth have you seen a currency or money being forced on people by politicians. Don’t we have economists in Zimbabwe.
  23. [7:13 AM, 11/17/2016] MD Mawere: We are told by $200 million provided by the Afrexim Bank
  24. [7:14 AM, 11/17/2016] +263 73 214 5751: What then determines all that???
  25. [7:14 AM, 11/17/2016] MD Mawere: The reality is that the demand and supply of $ is not in balance.
  26. [7:16 AM, 11/17/2016] +263 77 291 2789: I think those who are directly affected by the bond note really know what it entails.
  27. [7:17 AM, 11/17/2016] +263 73 214 5751: 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
  28. [7:18 AM, 11/17/2016] Mahlangu: Government financial situation.

Due to the current financial situation caused by the slowdown in the economy, the Government has decided to implement a scheme to put workers of 50 years of age and above on early, mandatory retirement, thus creating jobs and reducing unemployment.

This scheme will be known as RAPE (Retire Aged People Early).

Persons selected to be RAPED can apply to the Government to be considered for the SHAFT program (Special Help After Forced Termination).

Persons who have been RAPED and SHAFTED will be reviewed under the SCREW program (System Covering Retired-Early Workers).

A person may be RAPED once, SHAFTED twice and SCREWED as many times as the Government deems appropriate.

Persons who have been RAPED could get AIDS (Additional Income for Dependents & Spouse) or HERPES (Half Earnings for Retired Personnel Early Severance).

Obviously persons who have AIDS or HERPES will not be SHAFTED or SCREWED any further by the Government.

Persons who are not RAPED and are staying on will receive as much SHIT (Special High Intensity Training) as possible. The Government has always prided its self on the amount of SHIT it gives our citizens.

Should you feel that you do not receive enough SHIT, please bring this to the attention of your Councillor or MP, who have been trained to give you all the SHIT you can handle.

Sincerely,

The Committee for Economic Value of Individual Lives (E.V.I.L.)

  1. [7:20 AM, 11/17/2016] +263 78 289 6338: Specifically on bond notes
  2. [7:20 AM, 11/17/2016] Mahlangu: Couldn’t resist sharing this chain message
  3. [7:22 AM, 11/17/2016] Dr Vusumuzi Sibanda Sibbs: Friends the body politic makes decisions on behalf of the people and not the people. However if people are aggrieved they retaliate to political decisions politically by exercising their democratic right which is a political instrument not through the courts or boycotting the gvt and ask8ng it to come down before their term of office is over
  4. [8:12 AM, 11/17/2016] +27 78 202 5720: Road port is not a significant market. The key drivers of the economy are retailers and banks. As long as these institution price bond note at par with the dollar. The market will realign to the call by these institutions.

The point above must be noted with the fact that Magundya’s team cleaned All banks of non performing loans.

That Nssa is the major shareholder of OK the biggest retail chain. Thus why would an ordinary person buy bond at a premium on street on to loose value when purchasing commodities. This will kill the black market.

  1. [8:17 AM, 11/17/2016] Tapuwa Chitambo: What do we learn from this application?
  2. [8:18 AM, 11/17/2016] +263 73 214 5751: We used to have these retail outlets in 2006 to 2008
  3. [8:19 AM, 11/17/2016] MD Mawere: Guess who is being sued? How can you sue the company as if it was the author of the reconstruction enterprise?
  4. [8:25 AM, 11/17/2016] +27 78 132 7477: Although legality of thse notes is still debatable, we ar at this point bcz monetary & fiscal policies hve bin failed.it is the same actors wu introduced bearer cheques without reason,where did it leave us?

This is a deliberate attempt to steal savings,pensions and future of already struggling people same as thy did in  2008.

Most of thse terms are found in textbook economics but no serious country has ever used such nonsense as a solution to cash flow. Without constitutionalism means thy is chaos.

We are under siege from individuals who are clearly aware tht a lasting solution can be found when they are  in chikurubi maximum prison.why can’t thy go there fr the country to move again?

  1. [8:29 AM, 11/17/2016] +263 77 587 5828: U are right on point👌🏾
  2. [8:44 AM, 11/17/2016] Dr Vusumuzi Sibanda Sibbs: This indeed is the right procedure and then the corporate veil can be lifted so we see the underneath through the court process.
  3. [8:44 AM, 11/17/2016] +263 77 248 6483: The last time the govt was taken to court over the matter, argued that mai mujuru had approached the court too early…had put the cart b4 the horse, claiming that bond notes had not yet been So I see no problem at all for any aggrieved party to approach the courts. Secondly, that so called gurantaee/loan from the African bank has not been presented to parliament, it may be false that such a facility exists. Govt loses nothing at all if aggrieved paries lose the court battle, but heyi, it’s one of the options available among others.                       bond-notes
  4. [8:47 AM, 11/17/2016] MD Mawere: Reconstruction assumes a third party action whose effect is to change a company’s identity.
  5. [8:47 AM, 11/17/2016] Dr Vusumuzi Sibanda Sibbs: I guess it is but why expend the energy on dead horses. If bond notes are not introduced then what? How do u resolve the cash crisis?
  6. [8:48 AM, 11/17/2016] MD Mawere: 👋🏾👋🏾👋🏾👋🏾
  7. [8:50 AM, 11/17/2016] +27 78 132 7477: Mugabe must do wat Cameron did,then all of a sudden all the cash will reappear
  8. [8:50 AM, 11/17/2016] Pandora: When government punches civil servants salaries, what is it punching if there is no cash, are you saying that there is an electronic society in which we can just pay each other using figures, whilst the money doesn’t exist anywhere physically, l want to under, how does this plastic money thing work?????
  9. [8:52 AM, 11/17/2016] Dr Vusumuzi Sibanda Sibbs: The identity of the third party will then be revealed and his success questioned but I real think joinder but more specifically amicus curae should be sought so that we are not seen as antagonistic and yet we will expose the matter leading to multiple litigation options based on the judgement of this case.
  10. [8:52 AM, 11/17/2016] MD Mawere: What are the questions that we think should be raised by an amicus?
  11. [8:54 AM, 11/17/2016] Dr Vusumuzi Sibanda Sibbs: Do you see Mugabe doing that and his captains will refuse. They refused in 2008 and if they let him it will be so they can take over and strengthen their grip on power and corruption becaz the system is rotten
  12. [8:57 AM, 11/17/2016] Ras: My response: come back home Cde and see the reality, road port & not banks will determine the rate as happened in 2008
  13. [8:58 AM, 11/17/2016] Dr Vusumuzi Sibanda Sibbs: Like how much was gvt owed? How much has been realised? Wjat wete the findings of investigator and all these will tie closely with SMM being respondents and establishing whether indeed corruption was foubd as per PCA and why was despecification done on MDM if the initial corruption was claimed to be his baby so when did this change and where did the corruption lie?
  14. [8:58 AM, 11/17/2016] +27 78 132 7477: I don’t but natural justice will,even if it might cost hundreds of lives.
  15. [9:03 AM, 11/17/2016] +263 77 248 6483: Do you honestly believe bond notes will resolve the cash crisis in Zimbabwe…
  16. [9:05 AM, 11/17/2016] Pandora: 200 million is 4% of the amount of money thats currently circulating in the Zim economy, noo bond notes will not solve the cash crisis
  17. [9:08 AM, 11/17/2016] Pandora: 3.4 % of banking sector deposits which are currently around 5,8 billion
  18. [9:09 AM, 11/17/2016] Dr Vusumuzi Sibanda Sibbs: Well look locally the people will hold the plastics or tokens but the problem will be the imports seeing most things are imported. However the pioneers of the thing do not realise still that whatever money is there will be spent on imports which will not come back then what? It is a bad decision but it is doing something and within their means its up to the people to agree that when the money comes they will burn all of it at once and rather lose it once than lose it gradually. That is a poli5ical statement. You need community to see that if they dint act they will lose eventually nonetheless but it is only a political solution required not judiciary process
  19. [10:28 AM, 11/17/2016] Shingai Ndoro: 👌🏿👍🏿
  20. [10:44 AM, 11/17/2016] Tawanda Madamombe: Whoever can trust the zanu pf gvt with a a delicate instrument such as a currency requires their head checked by a competent psychiatrist
  21. [4:23 PM, 11/17/2016] Tapuwa Chitambo: Help me welcome Mr Mudisi a legal practitioner
  22. [4:24 PM, 11/17/2016] Norman Mukandagumbo: welcome
  23. [4:24 PM, 11/17/2016] Tapuwa Chitambo: Welcome back Nyasha
  24. [4:24 PM, 11/17/2016] +263 78 206 1550: Thank you
  25. [4:24 PM, 11/17/2016] +263 77 514 6759: It’s a group for
  26. [4:25 PM, 11/17/2016] Tapuwa Chitambo: Mavato
  27. [4:25 PM, 11/17/2016] Dr Vusumuzi Sibanda Sibbs: Mr Mudisi welcome Sir.
  28. [4:25 PM, 11/17/2016] +263 77 514 6759: Thank you I hope I will of use
  29. [4:26 PM, 11/17/2016] Norman Mukandagumbo: definately………FRIENDS OF SHABANIE AND MASHAVA MINES……..a member based organisation
  30. [4:26 PM, 11/17/2016] +263 77 514 6759: I think I will enjoy great legal minds in this group
  31. [4:27 PM, 11/17/2016] +263 77 514 6759: Ok sure this seems to be a valuable group fostering the vandalised rights shabanie mine populace
  32. [4:29 PM, 11/17/2016] Norman Mukandagumbo: we need to understand first…..what went wrong…….which legislations and jurisdictional facts were grabbed to shoot the mine down

Related posts

Leave a Comment